Can You Teach An Old Dog Trainer New Tricks?

Zen Dog Training
Episode 66: Can You Teach An Old Dog Trainer New Tricks?

Jason Connell and Gordon Fontaine discuss whether or not you can teach an old dog trainer new tricks!

Recorded: 02-12-26
Studio: Just Curious Media
Partner: Zen Dog Training

Hosts:
Jason Connell
Gordon Fontaine

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Discurious Media. This is Zen Dog Training, a show dedicated to helping people train the dogs they love. I'm Jason Connell. And I'm Gordon Fontaine. Gordon, I'm excited to be back for another episode. And this one, I gotta say, I love this title. Can you teach an old dog trainer new tricks? To you, Gordon.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Thank you. Thank you. Well, this came up because, as I mentioned in previous episodes, I adopted a new dog named Heli. Gorgeous cocker spaniel. One of my clients insisted I take her because she couldn't handle the puppy anymore.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Right.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

And oh, it's been such a joy and a learning experience to have a new puppy in the home again. I haven't had a puppy in 13, almost 14 years. Wow. And you see them every day. Right, right, right. And I really started to think that I would kind of reinvent Zen dog training based on the experiences I was having with a new puppy. Like I was thinking, oh, I'm gonna rewrite everything. I really did. A lot of pressure on Heli. But you know, the funny thing is that when I've taken my training on myself and we've done our own puppy classes and used the training, I actually didn't find anything within our curriculum that needed to be changed or updated. Which I was, well, I know. So it's oh go us. There's one thing that I thought you really don't need such a strong negative reinforcement marker. You know, you don't need to say like, uh, in an angry voice. You can say uh-uh, in a nice voice and be really quiet about it. But what matters, as we've talked about many times before, is whether or not you follow through by stopping the unwanted behavior. So with Heli, I find I'm a little less vocal about my uh-uh, hey, get out of there. And I just make sure that I follow through with an interruption, but I don't use that gruff voice and try to startle them or you know, it's quieter sounds, but still the same amount of follow through. Interesting. So Franny's going, hey, I got it much harder.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

I got yelled at by this mean guy. No, that's great. So you did learn some new tricks, which is good. A little uh refinement, I should say, in this training. But it did lead you to a bigger epiphany.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Absolutely, absolutely. And so what I found where the biggest lesson was, the biggest epiphany came from, is taking Heli to the dog park. Brandy's an older dog. We don't go to the park with her, but with Heli, I really need to get her energy out. So I'm starting to go to a dog park every morning, Monday through Friday, and I'm meeting with these individuals. They know that I'm a dog trainer. Most of them know that I'm a dog trainer, but I'm not there to train anyone. I don't give out free advice. So I'm kind of like the fly on the wall. And what's really interesting when something goes wrong, how much people go back to this sort of get in the dog's face and yell and scold that as a dog trainer, I know it doesn't work.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

And they'll kill you to refrain.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Well, I'll give you a great example. There was some melting water, and I could tell, you know, there's puddles over there, giardia water, right? Gross melting water. The dogs had played for a bit. I figured they were thirsty. And I could see one dog, the one that listens the least. She was going over and I could tell she was going to start to drink some water. So, what did I do? I had treats in my pocket. I call my dog to me before the pack heads over there. Heli, heli, come here, girl. Yes, she comes running to me because I bring her to the park hungry. And I've got great, great treats on me. Right. So I practiced all the practice what I preach here. She comes running to me. I give her a whole handful of treats. I slip that leash on as she's enjoying the treats. And then I turn around and the entire pack is drinking the gross muddy water. My dog's on leash and they're all going, and they're yelling and they're trying to chase your dog. The dogs are actively drinking the water because they're thirsty. Yeah. But it's this preventative being ahead of what your dog's going to do thing that I bring to the park, but I bring to my clients as well.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Yeah, that's really good. I've never heard of bringing your dog to the dog park hungry. Of course. That's brilliant. That little tidbit.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Oh, of course. We meet up at eight in the morning. So she isn't starving. But the other big benefit here is that I don't want my dog to wake up in the morning and expect their food immediately first thing in the morning.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

So by making sure she's fed after the park, it ensures that she's kind of hangs out, has time, good time with me. We take her straight out to the bathroom. I really go straight to the park essentially with her. And then when we come home, I can feed her dinner in the crate, and then she'll nap for an hour or so and I can actually get some work done. Tired dog in the crate, napping. The best home run.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

The best. You know, Gordon, you may be underserving yourself by not advertising at this dog park or wearing the merch, the Zen dog training merch or something. But that's really interesting. I love how Heli has introduced you to something that you hadn't been doing in a while. You had probably not been going to dog parks as often, maybe as a trainer, but not on the daily. So you were able to pick up on some new things.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Yeah, and it gives me that insight of what do people do when I'm not in the home? Like when I'm in the home, they're listening to me and trying to apply my ideas. But when I'm not there, you know, this is what I see, Jason. So, like, for example, one dog then ran off, and the owner was so mad by the time they got to the dog, then they got in its face, they started yelling at the dog. And I'm thinking, poor dogs. He had a blast running away and chasing after another dog. And then by the time the owner that he loves catches up to him, then they're in his face yelling.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

That doesn't compute to coming to me as a good thing. And so I get to see this insight of people when the chips are down or they think their dog is doing something unwanted. We tend to go right back to the human-centric look them in the eyes and yell at them, angry school teacher, principal, drill sergeant approach, which just doesn't help your dog understand you.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Yeah, absolutely. You're kind of like a secret shopper there at the dog bar. Absolutely. Yeah, getting that insight. It's interesting that you're seeing this all the time. And so it leads me to believe that there's a lack of this tutelage, this ideology out there, which is good for Zendar training, not good for dogs in the world. It's really fascinating. And you just stumbled into this because you have a new puppy in the home. I know.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

And so the thing that I've noticed that the most transformational, like wow, idea that I'm seeing is that people have trouble being in control and telling their dog they're in control. And so the classic example is this one dog come to the park. She's a real squirrel hunter. And so what I see this owner do is allow the dog to chase and hunt squirrels on leash. So they just let the dog guide them in the park, up a tree, stare at a squirrel, and they're encouraging this hunting prey behavior.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

And then confused when the dog doesn't listen, leaves the park to go hunt squirrels, ran out of the park across the street to chase a squirrel, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

Uh plays really rough with some other dogs, biting their legs and doing prey behavior. And this is one of those cases where I suddenly bring it up where I'm like, hey, you know, it's really important the dog knows you're in control.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

It's really important that you do little, little things to teach your dog that you're the one who's in control. And it just doesn't sink in.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

And if you don't know any better, they think they're not taking this hunter out of the dog. And they think they're doing the right thing. They do, you know, and they mean well.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

I know. And then they're puzzled when the dog doesn't listen because they're not practicing obedience. They're practicing the opposite of obedience, they're practicing letting the dog do what it wants. I can only imagine how that dog runs the household at all. Yeah, it's absolutely stunning to me. But you want to be the one who controls your dog and the outcome. And you want to do it in a way that's not mean or aggressive or anything. It's just by creating teachable moments and drilling those lessons in that you're the one who the dog listens to.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

Yeah. So bringing it back around to the name of this episode, can you teach an old dog trainer new tricks, Gordon?

SPEAKER_01 8:37

I think you can. So here's where I'm headed. I want to give my listeners a great takeaway here. So my dog loves playing in the park with her friends. All right. So she's at the most excited to go to the park. So when I'm about three blocks away from the park as we walk there, I start working on the listen to me commands with the leash walking. If she starts to pull towards the park, when she's the most excited, I stop. I slowly back up. I teach her that the only way to get to the park is when she listens to me. And then when I get to the park, I don't just unclip her. I work on a couple more, like you need to listen to me first, you need to follow with me first, you need to walk with me first. And her reward isn't treats. Her reward is to go play with her dog friends.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

So it's the opposite of what her play buddy does over there. I'm doing these small lessons that take me an extra five, 10 minutes to get to the park doing, but it it instills obedience and that I'm the one who is in control and is the one to listen to every day.

SPEAKER_00 9:40

That is amazing, Gordon. I'm happy to know that Heli, a new dog, can come into your life and it gives you a chance to look at your curriculum and see that it really works, but also gets you out there and experience new things and you can use your tutelage and your practice on this new dog. And it's just a win-win all around. So I would say I definitely have learned new tricks.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Good. And it's just the same lessons as before, but just applying them when it seems like you shouldn't. So your dog's dying to get to the park, and you feel bad not letting him get to the park, but that's the perfect time to work on it. And so with my clients, I've been teaching that a little bit more. So maybe I did learn a new trick or two.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

There you go. I love hearing that. Well, this has been a great episode. Please subscribe, rate, and review the show. We greatly appreciate it. Also, visit zendogtraining.net for everything on there, everything in the dog training universe, and check out just curiousmedia.com for all the other shows we produce. Gordon, until next time, my friend, great job. Great, Jason. Thank you.